Running for office: and Green motoring

Reports and discussion on EVs in the press and media.
noahs-dad
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Re: Running for office: and Green motoring

Postby noahs-dad » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:22 pm

You should consider getting a couple of local PV installers to give you a free quote. That is what I would be doing now if I was you, nothing to lose and a wealth of information and options awaits. It involves them surveying your property, and guiding you with a recommended system. Not not only will you get a chance to meet the installers and speak to them about options, you will get a sense of what kind of system you could get and how it will perform. The quotes are usually detailed. I.e. not just a price and their name and address. I got one quote that was about 15 pages (maybe a bit to detailed) with all sorts of information, graphs, 3D imagery, estimated generation, estimated FIT etc.

Just make sure any installer is MCS certified (necessary for claiming FIT), any good installer will be and should have MCS.

You might also find it worthwhile to call Home Energy Scotland http://www.greenerscotland.org/home-energy-scotland who can tell you more about the current FIT situation. It is not as simple as it used to be, they do it a bit weird in some sort of quarterly cap now in terms of numbers of people who can claim it. Not up to date on what the current FIT rate is either, although it is not as good as it used to be, it is still quite good.

You can also request a free home energy report from Home Energy Scotland (not their crappy over the phone one), but one where a proper energy surveyor visits your home.

Also quite helpful is the Navitron Renewables Forum, best around IMO - https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/

roscoe
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Re: Running for office: and Green motoring

Postby roscoe » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:12 am

hmmmfff,
Domestic grid tied Scottish Solar PV is now only for the greenest of us all, my blunt term is 'you've missed the (FITs) boat now'.

If you now manage to get a 4kw system on your roof for near £5k you'll need to live and live under you roof for nearly 20 years to recover the capital outlay.

you can get estimates here
http://www.pvfitcalculator.energysavingtrust.org.uk/

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Scally
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Re: Running for office: and Green motoring

Postby Scally » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:06 pm

roscoe wrote:hmmmfff,
Domestic grid tied Scottish Solar PV is now only for the greenest of us all, my blunt term is 'you've missed the (FITs) boat now'.

If you now manage to get a 4kw system on your roof for near £5k you'll need to live and live under you roof for nearly 20 years to recover the capital outlay.

you can get estimates here
http://www.pvfitcalculator.energysavingtrust.org.uk/


I suspect that is correct, but Tesla says their new solar tiles (which look like conventional roof tiles) will be competitively priced with conventional tiles, and that looks to be the next game changer, along with solar glass windows etc. These large panels are just the first phase, we are going to see some radical new products on line soon, making solar a no-brainer for anyone building new, or re-roofing.

Imagine for one moment if even 25% of all roofspace in Scotland was occupied by solar, and that was linked to domestic or local commercial battery storage? I reckon it will come sooner, rather than later.

roscoe
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Re: Running for office: and Green motoring

Postby roscoe » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:59 pm

the next game changer re.solar in UK assuming FITs is clearly dead, yip it is dead,
apart from ever increasing energy rates ....
is kinda battery storage, but since you still need to pay increasing grid charges to get our winter energy, even that seems not worth it.
(becoming even more energy efficient domestically is the way to go)

SME/ biz that can 'efficiently' still absorb/use there solar generation minute by minute in summertime may still have a less onerous financial incentive the way electricity rates have shot up in the last few years, but on-grid domestic folk nah.

Tesla tiles I suspect will be like Apple phones, somewhat different in price to a functional alternative and thats before the storage £££. Maybe, if Scotland could float a bit towards the equator it would change :)

noahs-dad
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Location: Dunbar, East Lothian

Re: Running for office: and Green motoring

Postby noahs-dad » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:20 pm

At about summer time 2016 the 0-10kw rate was something like 4.2p a unit and the 10-50kW rate was 4.5p. So okay that is no where near the 14p of the past that many more will be benefiting from, but it is still good, and the payback time if you factor in FIT income, bill savings, diversions to other sources (particularly heating or a BEV car), is quite appealing still.

A typical 4kW 16 PV panel system based on those summer rates would give you a £200 approx income per year. You are going to save a good whack on electricity, £300 minimum a year at worst case (but surely much, much more if you use your PV to its maximum potential).

So 10 years payback time maximum on a £5000 4kW install, as little as 5-7 years if you use it really well.

But Solar PV is always a long term investment isn't it? I installed a tiny 2 PV panel system extension maybe 1-1.5 yrs ago that cost £1000 for just 0.53kW as I had a convenient space in a sunny enough spot for just 2 panels. I thought it was worth it at the time, and it has proven to be a good investment. It only gives me about £70 of FIT income a year.

My next PV extensions will sadly for me give me £0 of FIT as extensions no longer quality for FIT. I am still going to go ahead with them, again weighing up both the short term and long term I think the investment is sound, and it will pay for itself.

roscoe
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Re: Running for office: and Green motoring

Postby roscoe » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:11 pm

I used to believe you could use a fair whack of the solar generation yourself, but after looking at our household minute-by-minute, season-by-season logs for like 7 years it is far from the case. A perfect case like you present depends on.....

> having the 5 grand cash lying around and nothing better to do with it like paying off a mortgage or other life stuff

> being efficient means using less energy, so under 10kwh per day and most of that is evening, so we can't use the solar summer stuff

> being in during day obviously helps, xbox stuff is banned in daylight hours at our place

> scottish sun countrywide averages out, but on a single roof its mostly very spikey making timed washing machines virtually impossible to realistically 'solar-harness', plus 2/3 of solar generation appears in 3 months of high summer.

> there is also the risk/self-insurance of things like invertor failures

> ok spending $$$ more money on batteries or intelligent solar chargers or hot water heaters could up the use, but at the moment these are expensive and push money returns further into the distant future

> if you have a bigger electricity load for some reason during the day (as biz do) maybe but very few domestic energy consumers do, this is a crux

> living in the same home to recover the decade+ investment for many is a serious challenge initself

As for EV charging through the day, not sure that works for many, plus what is the good criteria for EV charging. Better energy network use so during the low demand night, or just lowest cost, some future smart excessive offshore wind x days a week, . . . not a straightforward fit. Still to evolve, soon I hope.

I'd suggest the 5k could fit a way better 'green' use in many other places, reducing annual mostly winter energy consumption being a better bet.

From a green perspective solar does reduce the country daytime gas carbon use during the summer by a decent whack UK wide. But for joe-public the investment is now clearly bonkers for on grid use.

roscoe
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Re: Running for office: and Green motoring

Postby roscoe » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:14 pm

now if you had an EV car and could get 'virtual-units' for solar generation to use in charging your car at night or periods of high energy generation, that would be sensible and make a decent economic case. It still encourages low energy use, best use of green gen, good use of network infrastructure.

...and puts some pennies into the pocket of individuals investing in their solar roof.

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Buzby
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Re: Running for office: and Green motoring

Postby Buzby » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:23 pm

Or better yet, do away with the FIT and export tariff and allow your standard residential meter to credit you (as if it would be running backwards) but of course, that would mean you would be exporting at the same price as the utility sells to you... and they wouldn't be at all happy with that!
- Raymond (Glasgow)
EVAS Communications

noahs-dad
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Re: Running for office: and Green motoring

Postby noahs-dad » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:17 pm

roscoe wrote:I'd suggest the 5k could fit a way better 'green' use in many other places, reducing annual mostly winter energy consumption being a better bet.


Here's the thing, a lot of my neighbours apparently can't afford Solar Panels and so on. But quite a lot of them live in bigger houses than me and many of them have lovely conservatories or extensions, drive 2 cars, and go on several holiday's abroad and other such things.

We would quite like a conservatory, but it is hardly essential and another space to heat at the end of the day. One of my neighbours spent £30,000 on a conservatory. That same money can buy you about 15kW of Solar, a large ASHP heating system, and a couple of Storage Radiators, with lots of FIT/RHI income + energy bill savings to be gained back.

A new kitchen would be nice, but nothing wrong with the existing kitchen. 2 cars would be nice like many of my neighbours.... but more money, and we can get by with one. Haven't been abroad for a decade either, but that's not to say our cheapo Sun Newspaper holidays to caravan parks have not been good fun!

So my point is, while what you are saying is true for some people, for many it is not. If anyone has a look around their street, I'd suggest that most house owners have chosen not to have home renewables, rather than it being a case of they can't.

We all have choices to make right? The wife and myself chosen to invest in various home renewable systems and use no fossil fuels and as such enjoy low home energy costs. But it has not been without some sacrifices elsewhere in life.

Is a bit like driving an electric car really. Lots of gains and rewards are there potentially, but not without sacrifices.

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Scally
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Re: Running for office: and Green motoring

Postby Scally » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:52 pm

On the other hand....
If you had put £8,000 into a bank account four years ago, what would it be worth now?
Answer, £8,000 - but its' purchasing value would be worth slightly less, due to inflation. Say £7,750
On the other hand, you could have invested in the stock market and made £2,000 profit or so, but there was no way of knowing that - it was a pure gamble.

In April, 2013, I chose to invest £8,000 into a 4 kwh solar rig, and it is:
a) generating about 2400 kwh per annum for domestic use and/or export
b) paying me £400 a year in FIT - and the FIT rises in line with inflation, it is index linked. I get about 20p per kwh.
c) still worth at least - say - £6,000, allowing for cheaper panels these days, and some depreciation, which is a potential consideration for anyone if I chose to sell my home.
d) hopefully will continue working for another 20 years (OK a moot point, but if not I can replace some malfunctioning panels or components and still get the FIT until 2033

I'm fairly happy with the arithmetic - it won't make me rich, but it was a sensible and prudent investment, as much as any kind of home improvement goes.

However, it isn't for everyone. Well, not yet.


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