The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Discussion of the location and operation of public EV charging infrastructure in Scotland
roscoe
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:48 am

Re: The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Postby roscoe » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:18 am

really happy we have a single rapid at newhouse, a welcome start, but
after a half billion or so spend on a bit oh motorway and a few tricky junctions

but a SINGLE rapid for a route serving how many motorists per day,..... the hamlets of tyndrum have more .... sigh

imagine a tesla supercharger with a single rapid er..... dont think so
up the game time is upon us

plus mr.elon. tesla plonk one there !


Buzby wrote:None on the M8? Ask Ecotricity (as they had the exclusivity, but did nothing). Harthill IS problematic, as it cannot be accessed from both sides - Newhouse, at least, can be - so the gap is plugged.

Matt Beard
Posts: 758
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:49 pm

Re: The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Postby Matt Beard » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:14 am

roscoe wrote:for a country that says rather often that it can stand on its own two feet . . .
how hard can it be to put a charger station between scotland's two major cities
I rest my case..
over to you Transport Scotland are ye a man or a moose ?

heartlands.JPG

Not sure what this post is saying! There is a charger between the two cities.

roscoe
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:48 am

Re: The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Postby roscoe » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:01 am

the M8 is the busiest road in scotland with over 180,000 cars per day ? feels like it to me
imho whitburn rapid is not on the motorway and the new-newhouse SINGLE rapid is a welcome addition but hardly sufficient and after billions of recent investment this road link remains in EV terms poor, thats before dreaming of an olso style 20 bay supercharger station or fastned charging facility


Matt Beard wrote:
roscoe wrote:for a country that says rather often that it can stand on its own two feet . . .
how hard can it be to put a charger station between scotland's two major cities
I rest my case..
over to you Transport Scotland are ye a man or a moose ?

heartlands.JPG

Not sure what this post is saying! There is a charger between the two cities.

noahs-dad
Posts: 864
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:36 pm
Location: Dunbar, East Lothian

Re: The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Postby noahs-dad » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:30 am

One at Junction 4 (North side of Livingston) would have been good, and still would be good. The M8 is busy and I expect that Newhouse rapid will be very busy at most times of day. If ever there was a case for a mini hub, or 2-3 Rapid's side by side, that is it?

chris1982
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:21 am

Re: The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Postby chris1982 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:38 pm

used the charger this morning, still plenty of space in the car park.

I suppose it might be a case of monitor the useage of it first and see if more are required....

ScotstounPele
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Postby ScotstounPele » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:25 pm

Got to say I'm reasonably impressed with M8 rapids compared to six months ago. Back in January, Transport Scotland and NLC conceded via Twitter and email respectively that there were no plans for any EV rapid charging within the M74/M8/M73 upgrade area. NLC then told me in an email that they were looking at Newhouse and Harthill as possible sites (I wonder if this was precipitated by the nudge some of us gave them last winter to install rapids in North Lanarkshire) and less than six months later there is a rapid at Newhouse in a sensible location. Presumably this will be well-used and stakeholders will feel the pressure to install further rapids there.

Given this relative success, I am thinking of contacting West Dunbartonshire in the next few weeks (now that council elections are out of the way) and seeing if a bit of Tweeting and email nagging can spur them on to do something about Balloch, to get a second rapid installed at Balloch and perhaps elsewhere (Kilbowie Park & Ride would make sense). Perhaps if a few of us do this together then we can tip the balance...

When dealing with some of the less progressive Scottish councils and their attitude to EV charging, perhaps we should point out that well-sited, reliable rapids can be profitable (examples: Ecotricity said last year that they believe they will break even with Electric Highway in 2017, and Fastned have profitable sites in the Netherlands). Rapids near main roads should be seen as a potential revenue-raiser for councils, especially in light of the current uptick in public interest/awareness in EVs and given the subsidies available from Transport Scotland for councils to install the units.

noahs-dad
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:36 pm
Location: Dunbar, East Lothian

Re: The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Postby noahs-dad » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:30 pm

They would need to be a clueless or stupid council to believe Rapids can be profitable in this generation. One or two might just buy the notion though. Ecotricity + profitability is a good argument for England where there is a bigger population and higher density of BEV's per square mile. Not to mention they actually have more than a handful of Ecotricity chargers down there. In Scotland though, Ecotricity is not a successful operation by any measure.

ScotstounPele
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Postby ScotstounPele » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:26 am

Rapid chargers are not profitable overall but sites can break even once startup costs are removed from the equation. We are only seeing a trickle of break-even sites just now - I think Fastned have 2-3 break-even individual sites on their network and perhaps there are some in Norway, plus Ecotricity believe they are about to break even across their network - but that number of profitable sites will increase as the number of EVs increases.

The deal for Scottish councils is that Transport Scotland funds the purchase and installation of rapid units and the council then owns them; the council's running costs are broadly maintenance and cost of electricity (and of course depreciation etc). It is these ongoing running costs that can be kept low with economies of scale and thus sites have a chance to break even or turn a small profit for the site owner.

I agree that there are probably very few profitable charge sites anywhere on the globe right now so government agencies and manufacturers will have to continue subsidising core investment in the units. But with things moving quickly, I would not be surprised if somewhere like Broxden proved itself capable of breaking even for its local authority owner within the next few years. Of course TS will not see a return on its investment in units and installation - they know that - but the job of the council is to keep the infrastructure running, manage it sensibly and introduce paid-for charging when the time is right. If councillors do not have the foresight do what PKC, Angus and Dundee are doing (perhaps others) and hoover up the subsidies with a view to generating modest profits (and good PR) in 5-10 years' time then, well, no one would be surprised...

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Scally
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Re: The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Postby Scally » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:59 pm

Installation costs of rapids are always going to be a killer for any business, given the low profit margin and long ROI per charge. That is a clear issue for central government to address.
Looking at charging - EV drivers have other alternatives, we can fly, take the train, or use an ICE, if the network price gets silly.
However, a decent Rapid hub is potentially a major earner for local services: give us 30 minutes and we will need a coffee, and snack, a meal or a magazine.
Logically, this is a good case for public/private partnership.

noahs-dad
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:36 pm
Location: Dunbar, East Lothian

Re: The M8 Rapid charging gap that needs plugged

Postby noahs-dad » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:44 am

RE The new M8 Newhouse charger, there is a user comment about this Rapid being operated by Polar. God help us all if that is true...

https://polar-network.com/map - they appear to have 18 chargers in Scotland, all slow 13A/T2 speed and mainly at Supermarkets. Half their chargers are in the Glasgow area, and they do have chargers already near to Newhouse. This seems to be quite an interesting and significant step if they have their first Rapid, and at a P+R also.

Was it only ever a matter of time, before Scotland was infiltrated and eventually taken over with a CYC/CM/POLAR monopoly strategy?

Or is there hope for Scotland?

The excitement over this charger, and it's plugging of that massive M8 charging hole may just have been wishful and premature for us all.


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