Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Discussion of the location and operation of public EV charging infrastructure in Scotland
Martin Lee
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Re: Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Postby Martin Lee » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:28 pm

Not sure why the system needs to provide quotes to a long reply to a question but thats an aside.

Re distileries. The Tomatin Distiliery does have a rapid and I have used it quite a few times. I would not be willing to pull over to get a charge on an AC post, typicaly I'm looking for 15kWh or more and its usualy dark with zero facilities at the times I'm there.

Martin Lee
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Re: Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Postby Martin Lee » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:42 pm

Scally wrote:Within 10 years all new EVs will be capable of 250 -450 mile range. And there will be a very large number of them: probably 50% of all new sales, maybe more. Many city centres will have banned ICE altogether through heavy pollution charging. This changes everything.
Ultra-Rapid hubs can be more distant from each other, maybe every 100 miles, with far more chargers in the same location to avoid excessive queuing, solar canopies, battery back up and retail/ cafe opportunities. Ultra-rapids will become the norm to speed throughput, whilst a few single and double 50 kWh rapids will be handy at the half-way mark every 50 miles for legacy e-vehicles, rural and island areas with very low demand, and general convenience.
Yes, they will all of course be PAYG by then, using any contactless credit card, not RFID, and at sensible rates: I'd continue to support a strategic
national network that is provided and supported largely by the Scottish Government rather than a private free for all, but I'd have no problem with supermarkets and other destinations providing a rank of destination chargers.
But to me the one single thing Government could do would be to insist that each new block of flats had at least one charger per car parking space: because flat dwellers are losing out big time, and encourage more older flats and terraced type and tenemented housing estates to also fit public chargers through grant aid.



Spacing chargers at 100 miles appart is no use as lots of cars cant even do 100 miles on a charge and leaving older cars behind will give EVs a luxury image which we do not want. Roscoe makes a good point that larger capacity cars will never become cheap enough to compete on costs with small petrol cars. There is a good chance that 40kWh might do so at some point of time but in the mean time we need to build a decent network for the cars we have. There is also an issue with sites at 100 miles rather than a say 35 miles. This is that people will synchronise charging to each site, this will require larger power supplies which can be more expensive. For example at 35 mile spacing sites may need 1,000kW supplies at 100 mile spacing then 3,000kW supplies will be needed. Also this cuts off the chance to charge at the last site on the trunk road network. If you turn off 10 miles short of the next charger spaced every 100 miles you are then more reliant on the odd old charger which remains from an earlier network.

Its nearly impossible to site chargers every 100 miles anyway on Scotlands trunk road network. Measured from Perth 100 miles is short of Inverness and measured from Inverness 100 miles is short of Perth. However putting a couple of charge hubs approx a third and two thirds of the distance between the two would work out at about 40 miles spacing which most cars could achieve.


I think the decision to go for chargers every 35 miles or so is the best one and I'd like to see that continue.

Martin Lee
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Re: Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Postby Martin Lee » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:10 am

I quite often spend time speaking to people about my EV. Today I was talking to a guy about EVs and he was coming up with all the arguments about why his wife shouldn't get an EV. Every one of his concerns, such as being as polluting as petrol cars, time to charge etc were all easily answerable from my own experience apart from one.

The one point which is stopping them getting an EV and which I didn't have a good answer for, is fear of turning up at a charger on a longer trip and not been able to charge straight away. With 2% of cars in Orkney already EV, he already knows what they are like based on speaking to other people. He mentioned that he had struggled to keep up with a Leaf on a hill earlier in the day and was impressed with the performance.

The first three things we need in Scotland if we wish to promote EVs further are.

Sufficient charge points.

Working charge points.

Charge points where people need them for long journeys.

The last three things we need in Scotland if we wish to promote EVs are

Government announcements about electric highways which don't produce any results.

Free electricity from chargers.

A failure to increase petrol and diesel fuel duty for the past 10 years or so.

The last point is in the hands of the Westminster government, the other five points could have, and should have been dealt with by the Scottish Government, but there seams to be a reluctance to get on with the work required.

I don't think it is co-incidence that Orkney as the local authority in Scotland with the most EVs per person only just makes the top ten local authorities in the UK.

Martin Lee
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Re: Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Postby Martin Lee » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:12 am

I logged on to see if there was any further information about the meeting with Transport Scotland. A date? the results of the meeting perhaps?

Martin Lee
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Re: Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Postby Martin Lee » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:09 am

I believe the meeting has been held now. Do we get to see the agenda and minutes of the meeting? Were any of the points raised above successfully put across to TS by EVAS? How are changes made by TS going to be monitored?

I think my biggest immediate concern for which I hopped for a positive answer was in relation to the proposed connection fees in Edinburgh as these already broke TS own guidance on only charging per kWh.

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Re: Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Postby membership » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:45 pm

Several points had previously been raised with TS by EVA Scotland and remain on their ongoing action list for the meeting. Remember that raising a point doesn't guarantee that it will result in a change . The meetings are always time limited, so not every point can be raised.

We are seeking a regular separate meeting with CPS for network management issues.

TS also note that there is a phase change in their activity, with the newly established Low Carbon Economy Directorate appearing to have a broad and boundary crossing remit. Evidence gathering to define policy and interventions is underway. The most relevant part for EVA Scotland so far is an increase in stakeholder engagement. The process covers a very broad spectrum, with outcomes not yet fully defined.

The issue of connection fees in Edinburgh was noted, but please remember actual fees will be set by the hosts, not TS. Guidelines are only guidelines, not rules. Edinburgh have not yet opened the consultation on their plan. We have a response prepared that comments on the flaws of connection fees, as well as most of the points raised around the forums and social media. We also state that they need to move the plan to the most optimistic uptake option, maximising the investment in infrastructure.

The topic of skills development to support growth and create jobs in Scotland was raised. We are taking a representative from TS to a meeting with Edinburgh College regarding their plans for EV skills course development.

We will provide future updates to Members on the website.
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Scally
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Re: Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Postby Scally » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:00 pm

In a sense, Yes, good point: we need a lot more urban low cost, practical, short range utility vehicles, like mobility scooters but with a roof. But I'd envisage a lot of them will be pooled on a car-club basis: many urban dwellers cannot afford to buy and are fearful of the hassle of ownership.
General Secretary of the Electric Boat Association, founded in 1984, with members worldwide.
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Martin Lee
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Re: Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Postby Martin Lee » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:02 am

Tongue in cheek but we already have short range utility electric vehicles with a roof. They even come in three different flavours, ion cZero and iMiEV.

Our family have one, along with a 4 wheel drive Outlander PHEV for towing and an BMW i3 REX for our long trips. While each car has a nominal owner-driver they are insured for all of us to drive and we are flexible in who uses which car on a day to day basis. I sometimes find myself in a 7.5 year old cZero and not my luxury i3.

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Re: Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Postby noahs-dad » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:32 pm

Our main family car is 24kW Leaf and 2nd family car is a 6 year old Ion that replaced a 9yr old I-Miev. I used to think and feel it was just probably me going about East and Mid Lothian/Borders/Berwickshire in one of these banger BEV's. But in more recent times there is a few of us. A couple of weeks ago I saw 3 in 1 day! One guy even has a bike on a rack on the back of their Red C-Zero!!!

Can't deny it is still a niche, budget no frills car, but its cheap as chips and reliable with reasonable range and DC Chademo charging. Not too bad then. I presume for many like myself, it was the only choice budget wise, but I have bought one of these cars twice now, net spend of £7500, and the £ for £ value for money aspect is excellent. The best £ for £ value usually is with the budget cars. But again I won't lie I would love a Leaf 40...

Martin Lee
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Re: Forthcoming Meeting with Transport Scotland

Postby Martin Lee » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:31 pm

Found out in recent discussions with Orkney Council that the reason that they want to have a connection charge is that is what has been negotiated between the Scottish Government and the operators of Charge Place Scotland, 36p for each connection pre VAT so 43.2p plus a fee of 4.5% of the transaction value. So if you charge a £1 for a charge 47.7p goes to Charge Place Scotland.

These fees might have made sense when volumes of charging were low but seem inappropriate and very high as more people use Chargers.


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